Friday, October 06, 2006

Be weary weary quiet were hunting paedophiles… ehehehehe

The home of a convicted rapist was burnt to the ground on Thursday, as the towns folk watched on. Beers in hand the crowd cheered as the home of Terrence Allan Ellis was reduced to smouldering rubble. Terrence Allan Ellis was recently sentenced to 3 and a half years jail after raping a young woman from the town..

I am not by any stretch of the imagination a paedophile sympathiser, nor am I so heartless to assume that a crime of this magnitude would not shock a town to its core. However taking justice into ones own hands is were I take stock.
“grab your pitch forks and torches, kill the ogre” have we really taken this step backwards towards cavorting druids, living in caves and dung for dinner.

I do not always agree with the sentencing in this country, it is not always appropriate to the crime, white collar crime theft of millions is a slap on the wrist, john lunch pale who holds up a petrol station to pay his bills spent life behind bars. Our justice system does need an overhaul, but we must remain calm think things through, act on good information not out of fear.

Our prison systems serve three purposes, firstly to deter, secondly to punish and thirdly to reform, what chance will a convict have of reform with no home to return too, no hope for his/ her release.

On a final note, it is funny to watch a media organization after something like this, a group which has fuel fear and hate of sex offenders, making us feel like they are around every corner lurking to steal our children. The pump the masses full of fear and hate and then wash their hands when a tragedy happens. This was apparent with a Cronulla race riots, every day pumped full of fear about Arabs, Muslims and asylum seekers, then people get scared, then angry people get hurt and killed, the media says it’s a shame.


Blogger lee said...

Yeah, it was a bit of a shock to hear of this story. I found myself in conflict with mixed feelings over it - just plain weird. On one hand -yay!!! On the other - oh, that's not right. Screwy.

8:12 PM  
Blogger Within Without said...

Without knowing all the specifics and more intricate details, I sympathize with the people who torched his house.

How "young" was the woman? Not that that truly matters. He was convicted of rape, which is forcefully having sex with an unwilling female who is a victim.

All I can speak about is Canada. There is a perception -- I believe it's reality -- that the rights of the perpetrator have become more important than the rights of the victim.

Based on what you've said, and in societies where people have a feeling of helplessness and a lack of justice, this is the only way they can express their anger.

If it's living in caves and based on instinct and survival of the fittest, then I think we have to believe these people who burned this jerk's house down are acting on nothing but that: their need to survive.

I don't disagree that there seems to be (again, in Canada) a rule for the rich and a rule for the poor.

But I think anything a white-collar cheat does is just about money. Raping a woman is something entirely different.

If someone raped my daughter, I would be after them with a pitchfork or worse too. I wouldn't care.

If our society is going to condone this kind of thing -- if it can happen, largely because of our concern more for the jerk than for the victim -- then if the cops weren't doing their job and this guy was getting protected by some politically correct ideology and justice system, I'd be hunting this guy down and slicing his gonads off or a whole lot worse, let alone burning down his house.

9:03 PM  
Blogger Aidan said...

Within without

Big picture: we have courts and appeal systemes for a reason, we cannot fall to mob rule. People are panicky creatures, slightest suspicions can be carried away.
Look at the witch trials of history, mob rule.
I dont agree with rape by any stretch of the imagination, but we are not judge, jury and executioners, he had been given a sentence buy a panel of his peers, in a system we have to believe in.

The law is there to protect ALL..We have an appeal process, we have class actions, when criminal system fails there is appeal to a higher court, or in recent years civil action against the convict.

Raping a woman is something entirely different. True. But most blue collar crime is not crimes of passion, most blue collar crime is against property. Theft, vandalism etc. It was more to illustrate the difference in our society, this crime is in a different catergory.

My concern is the slide on efects; yes every now and again, the time doesnt fit the crime, but surely in terms of civilisation as a whole and the greater good (wrongly accused, bystanders) this behaviour is not toleratable.

Thanks for the comment. lots to think about. Glad you dont pull punches i really appreciate honesty....

Lee: it is not clear cut, were do we draw the line? If we make an acception for this, were does it stop. He killed my sister so i killed his. Four year olds act like that.

9:19 PM  
Blogger Within Without said...

Yeah, Aidan, let's be clear: this is a discussion, not an I'm right you're wrong thing.

That's what makes this blogging thing so wonderful.

As I've said to you before, I sincerely respect your intelligence and your view.

I react on a feeling basis first and then I wait for my brain to kick in after an intelligent debate.

I certainly agree there needs to be calm, fair, sobre second thought.

But at the moment, my feeling is the bad guys -- and I sympathize somewhat with the societal ills that MADE them bad guys in the first place, and which should be taken into consideration -- too often seem to be winning the war.

There seems to be a lack of balance in the scales of justice.

And in a very confusing world, the people who AREN'T the offenders are very threatened and don't feel safe and they see what's going on around them and they want it to stop.

It seems to me we've become so politically correct but it's completely out of step with what's happening in the real world.

It seems, in North America at least, that we protect the most heinous criminals while parents are mourning the loss of their children.

There's a perception, real or imagined, that the criminal justice system isn't about justice at all.

That it's more about paying lawyers huge amounts of dollars in never-ending appeals processes that cost the taxpayers untold millions of dollars, all in the interests of protecting the rights of people who have long criminal records and who should never been out of jail in the first place.

People who go out and rape or murder even after it was clear they were bad people who had a history of repeat offences and who shouldn't have been allowed back into society in the first place.

In North America, anyway, this happens over and over and over again. After a while, people feel helpless. The justice system they're paying for throught their taxes is under-funded and is handicapped by this accused-first approach.

They throw up their hands. Their daughter or their friend's daughter has just been raped. They feel helpless. They can't stand by and just let it happen.

It may not be the right reaction. But it's the human one, I believe, when something like this happens.

10:34 PM  
Blogger Aidan said...

/* so this post makes a bit more sense i should stress i do not believe in moral responcibility as i do not believe in free will*/

Social ills are a factor and the major factor, what is it about our culture that produces monsters... IS it genetic or is it a product of the environment? It is certainly not in the MO of a "normal" person to rape, kill or harm.

I do not believe that rapists should be released on the grounds "hey it is not your fault, as your father was also a kiddy toucher." but i do believe that they are not fully responsible for their actions.

The fight against Crime should focus on prevention, removing undesirable elements, or removing the root cause.

To say that the only way a town could deal with this problem is by mass arson, is a very short sighted view. Petitioning local government en masse, is a more practical and effective method than resorting to violence/arson.

lawyers are there, yes sometimes they exploit loop holes, but it is better to live in a world were everyone has right to a fair trial. The pros far outway the cons, without access to a fair legal system we move towards a police state. This system is in place for our own good.

Most cases in the counry pass through with little media atention, every now and again something like this crops up and the media ramp it up, turn it into fear, as fear sells newspapers, fear brings advertising money in, fear then turns to hate and tragedy happens. The papers then wash their hands as they have made their money.

Repeat offenders: i agree that they should be removed, (mental hospital/incaration) it will happen again as it is in their nature. Mostly i think it comes down to money.

In short you can complain about a legal system, but to make a difference there are chanels. Rioting, arson, you are making the problem worse. (i take the same stand with the death penalty). A lot of people complain about the system but when it comes to actual change they wont make the effort unless it directly effects them.

By the way i am loving this debate.

12:50 AM  
Blogger Within Without said...

And I'm loving it too, Aidan.

I agree with absolutely everything you've said in this most recent response.

The most ideal thing for all those people to do -- if they felt they had any real power -- was to march, as a group, to the political seat of government (is it the legislature in Australia?) and protest, loudly but forcefully but peacefully, on their steps.

And then to go to the court, and the police department, the parole board, whatever.

Do all that INSTEAD OF going to this guy's house and burning it down.

But I suspect that these people feel a total sense of helplessness, that governments are not listening to them, that the justice system is skewered entirely the wrong way.

I think most right-minded, sensible human beings believe in a fair trial.

And I believe that in most cases, trials are fair and do most often convict (or free) the guilty person.

But it all seems to fall apart after that. Criminals are sentenced to 25 years and get out in eight, and they reoffend again.

This just happens over and over. And people are sick of it. I think that's the motivation here.

9:17 AM  
Blogger Aidan said...

I think we have started arguing the same point, we both are in agreement that the system must be overhauled and tat violence and mob rule is not the answer.

"But it all seems to fall apart after that. Criminals are sentenced to 25 years and get out in eight, and they reoffend again." i think we have to look at why, -look at what we use to reform, or instigate some form of indefinate (that can be justified) detention for those who cnnot be reformed due to what ever cause.

I understand the motivation, i can understand why people are angry, ( i dont have kids so i could never fully understand your view point)... BUt i would like to think i was calmer and would think my actions through.

Thanks for the comments and te debate, in the words of monty python.

Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?

I told you once.

No you haven't.

Yes I have.


Just now.

No you didn't.

Yes I did.

You didn't

I did!

You didn't!

I'm telling you I did!

You did not!!

Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

5:30 PM  
Blogger Homo Escapeons said...

It is important that we redirect the attention to the victims of crime and do away with molly coddling criminals. The onus should be on the bad guy and their decision to act upon their impulses. Our society is just absolutely fed up with the lack of justice and the emphasis on defense lawyer's fees and the perp's rights.
Enough is enough.
That being said I am no fan of mob rules (not the kangaroo mob) and that is not acceptable. Build more jails and completely rethink the parole system.
I watched Wyatt Earp last night and I was impressed by Kevin Costner's stoic act of justice when he stopped an angry drunken mob from lynchin' his prisoner in the town jail...of course the best part was the merciless execution of his brothers by one he hunted them down and served up some frontier justice..
If the courts served out some realistic sentences we wouldn't have all of this pent up frustration and angry mobs would be kept at soccer matches where they belong!

8:58 AM  
Blogger Homo Escapeons said...

Have you entered the witness protection program?
or are you just trying to rub our noses in it by having a fulfilling life in the RW?

1:15 PM  
Blogger Aidan said...

SOrry have been suffering a bit of wirters block, that and work has been monitoring how much time i waste...

12:00 AM  

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